Auburn Municipal Civil Service
Meeting –April 3, 2008 Minutes
Comm. Welch called the meeting to order at 11:00 am. Civil Service Clerk Anna Hlywa took roll call. Present was Comm. Welch, Comm. Camardo and Comm. Brennan. Also present Mayor; Michael Quill, City Manager; Mark Palesh, Human Resource Director; Karen Green, Fire Chief; Mike Hammond, Police Chief Gary Giannotta, Corporate Council Andrew Fusco and other members of city hall and fire dept.
Motion made by Comm. Camardo to approve the minutes of meeting held on March 6, 2008 and the special meeting held March 27, 2008 seconded by Comm. Brennan. Minutes approved 3-0.
OLD Business
55 A Act issue that has been discussed at prior meetings. Motion made by Commis. Camardo to table as we are still waiting on a letter from Albany stating their position. Motion Seconded by Brennan Motion. Carried 3-0.
New Business
Letter sent from Albany requesting modification to HR Director qualifications. Motion made by Commis. Welch to table until further information is discussed. Seconded By Commis. Brennan. Motion Carried 3- 0.
Exam announcement will be made on April 7th for the firefighter and city treasurer. Residency requirements to remain the same as in the past. Firefighter exam eligible for residents of Cayuga County. City manager has the right to request city residents only. Treasurer will remain that NYS residents are able to take the exam.
Asst. Fire Chief Eligible list # 72-978. Motion for it to be eligible for 4 years by Commis.
Camardo second by Brennan. Motion Carried 3-0.
Commis. Camardo questioned the new procedure of the Civil Service meeting being videotaped. What is the cost? Are any other City agencies being taped?
City manager Mark Palesh replied the cost is approximately $300.00 and currently other things have been taped such as the state of the city luncheon, ball games and we are looking into other areas as well.
Commis. Welch spoke to Mr. Palesh that he believes that they should have been consulted before deciding to tape the meeting. The commissioners found out only by a memo that was sent to someone else by someone else and they were copied on it.
Commis Camardo stressed that he hopes we can keep the lines on communication open & clear.
Palesh replied that he would keep them informed.
DISCUSION OF TRANFERS:
Commis Welch: Per the request of the City Manger, Chief Hammon and Chief Giannotta we will re–visit the discussion of lateral transfers.
Mayor Quill spoke saying his point of view. I believe for a limited time to allow transfers for the cost saving to the city.
Commis Camardo: In recent times the civil service commission has taken the heat in regards to the fire dept losing money. Last time I voted for lateral transfers because of the cost saving.
Mayor: From Jan 1 forward I will be responsible for lack of action or action.
Commis Welch: In October when we discussed transfers the request was denied. Come to find out the 2 people that you were interested in were not even eligible for transfers.
Commis Brennan: I read the citizen about our neighboring counties and us losing population and Cayuga County is the highest in unemployment. Wouldn’t it help the community if we hire locally?
Mayor: There are people that live in Auburn that work for other fire departments.
Commis Brennan: I am looking at a list of over 100 people that spent money, took a test for up to 6 hours that are on a eligible list. When was the last school?
Chief Hammon: They are spring and fall every year.
Mayor: I can argue either side, what I am hear today for is asking for consideration.
Commis. Camardo: The board is always open.
Commis Welch: We agree to disagree in this matter.
Chief Hammon: All the points made so far are very well taken. I do not want to end up in a situation like we were in last fall. There is an opportunity here. City council has requested to hire 4 firemen. I have made a cost comparison; it costs roughly $28,000 to put someone through the academy. With a transfer the cost is only one-week pay for on the job training. Cost saving over $110,000 in training.
Commis Camardo: In regards to training costs –do we provide firefighter to help training Albany?
Hammon: No exchange of service is being given
Commis Camardo: No extra value for our fire fighter to train – they do it on their own.
Hammon: Yes, the value is the experience they learn. As you are aware we have a restraining order that will not allow us to use 2 of the firefighters that are in the academy. The next academy is August to November. The cost of overtime for that time period is $92,000. Total opportunity of saving is over $200,000. This is not the commission’s fault, it is an opportunity.
Comiss Camardo: What has happened in the past? Why were people not sent to the academy?
Hammon: We came to you in October, asked for lateral transfers, we were denied so we went forward w/ interviews background checks, screening, 2 men were hired in late January.
Camardo: Yes, that is recent, what about before
Hammon: Before my time?
Commiss Welch: Where are these 4 people coming from?
Hammon: We do not have candidates. We would do an ad in the paper for lateral transfers.
We have lost fire fighters to other cities – Binghamton and Medina.
Welch: Current list has 101 names on it. The police list has 76 on it.
Commis Camardo. It is difficult that we presented to all these people who took the exam that we will have openings and now we will not because of an emergency.
Hammon: We are not in an emergency yet. June 1st.
Welch. For me this is a moral question. Is it right? We have 2 lists – these people will not have a chance. We have had discussion before not to make it a blanket decision - done on a one at a time basis.
Police Chief Giannotta: We have gone back and forth with lateral transfers for about 5 years. At one point we were allowed. Taking people from other agencies is common practice. I have one guy that is looking at becoming a trooper.
Commis Welch: That is upward mobility.
Giannotta: It depends on how you look at it. He is going to start at the bottom with no seniority and go through the academy. Onondaga County takes a lot of people from different places so they train elsewhere. We have the responsibility to fill the gap and protect the citizens of Auburn. An incentive is offered by the state for early retirement. This will impact our office in a negative way, if people leave in the summer the recruits wont go to the academy (June & Jan) until 2009.
Welch: Is this incentive in place?
Giannotta: Yes, Effective April 1, We have the possibility of losing over 30 police officers in the next 4 years. It is not financially sound for us to put all these people through the academy.
Commiss Camardo: How has this been handled in the past?
Giannotta: We have put officers on staff with a senior officer. It is a body but untrained. For a limited time it may be expectable but in certain situation lateral transfers are good for both. I receive about 1 – 2 resumes a month from police officers that want to live in this area.
Camardo: So if we hire all lateral we would not use the list.
Giannotta: That is not what I am requesting. A little bit of both.
Commis Brennan: Back in the 1990’s 10 fire fighters left with an early incentive. What was the difference then?
Giannotta: The level of training we have to accomplish. Then it was 80 or 90 days. Now it is 6 months.
Commis. Brennan: I understand but in 1990 still no lateral transfers.
Giannotta: All that was done is made over time and people were not properly trained. 6 months is too long to ask people to work over time - being away from their families. Lateral transfers should be a part of the normal hiring procedures. There has to be some room for compromise.
Commis Welch: What will happen in the city is that the # of ppl taking these test will drops as we continue to sit on these lists. I attended the agility test for the police officers a few weeks ago. All of them were fantastic, if they were all hired – would that not help?
Giannotta: I am budgeted for X amount of people. I cannot hire and train for possible future spots. Lateral transfers already have training. The experience is there. New police take about 5 years to get comfortable.
Commis. Welch: What if you hire 5 of those people?
Giannotta: The city is not going to allow me to hire over budget, I have at least 2 people that may leave in June or July, What happens if they don’t leave, Then I have extra bodies, salary, etc.. I can’t train them unless we offer them a job.
Palesh: My issues with what I am hearing is that this is a one time basis. We are not asking to change you r policy. Other communities are doing it and taking our guys, it also brings new people with different ideas from other areas.
Commis Welch: How many people have been lost over the year to other depts?
Hammom:1
Giannotta: 2
Giannotta: It is not the number of people that have been lost. It is that it is common practice. They have the option to take already trained people.
Commis Welch: What happens if they offer a buy out again. We will be in this same position again. If you hire from the list then you would have a young force not eligible for a buy out.
Giannotta: The City manager and the comptroller will not allow me to change my budget to hire more officers today.
Commis Brennan: Is anyone else here that has a difference of opinion?
Bill Jacobs Retired Fire Captain: There was no one in the AFD that hated Civil Service more than me, I was on 2 lieutenants list and was jumped over many times.
Commis Camardo: That is not the function of civil service; we are not the hiring manager.
Jacobs: Last November there was a referendum that the civil service be abolished; I knew that even though I hated them that could not happen that is not right. People of Auburn pay taxes and pay the fees to take the tests. What is the incentive for the people to come here when we are closing stations.
Fire Caption Joe Morabito: In addressing the training issue. I have taught training classes through NYS, 2 classes are being done in Binghamton and in Utica. We can bring an academy to Auburn we have had 2-3 of them in the past. There are other possibilities then the training in August. We could do it in Auburn and open it up to other Municipalities.
Commis Brennan: Do they meet the state standard?
Morabito: Yes, The run one in Utica, Syracuse is running one very shortly. This is just a thought of how to get people trained another way.
Commis Welch: We talk about this so often. People come to me and say it is a lifelong dream to be a firefighter. Even with a test score of 90 - people are not being hired. People have good faith taking these tests. Again it is a morale question – are we doing the right thing? What is the sense of taking the exam? The people should be considered. I cannot say a blanket yes or no.
Commis Camardo: It has to be done on an individual basis not a blanket policy.
Welch: Early retirement could happen at any time I would love to see these list used.
Commis Brennan: It is not a vote. No motion needed.
End of discussion
RSVP Eligible list.
Commissioner Welch Motioned to approve eligible list #67-539 RSVP Coordinator for up to 4 years. Brennan 2nd. Motion carried 3-0.
Brennan motion to adjourn Camardo second. Meeting Adjourned
Attest____________________
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